BE then DO - Part 2

Dan Schilling & Michael Blue examine Matthew 7 to look into the dangers of "doing" without "being" with Jesus. This is the second episode of a 3-part series. This may free you from the bondage of feeling like you are "not doing enough" for God.

Transcript

Dan Schilling: 0:07

Hey, welcome to the Fiji podcast where we help you hear God's voice, follow his lead and thrive as a disciple. I'm Dan Schilling. And I'll be one of your guides. Now let's get into today's topic. Hey, thanks for joining the feed cheap podcast. Good to be back with you, my partner in crime. Michael, good to be with you today. Brother. Dan, good to be with you. Yeah, man, you sound great. You sound like you got a new mic or something?

Michael Blue: 0:32

I did. I kind of decided if we're gonna keep doing this, I might as well try to upgrade technology. So

Dan Schilling: 0:38

yeah. Well, it's a great sound. And glad to be with you today. And glad that you're joining us. Today, we're going to continue our discussion from last time this is part two of be overdue. Be then do. And last time, Michael, you and I talked about several passages of Scripture. We were looking at some of the things that in John 15, where we talked about staying close to him and abiding in him. And just what have been your thoughts as we kind of think back to that time about that remaining and abiding? And what that meant to you.

Michael Blue: 1:22

Just as I think and contemplate this topic, I don't think we can overemphasize the importance of abiding in our lives. And I think that too often I've treated it and I think many people treat it as if it is a task to be accomplished, as opposed to a way of life. And I think that's the biggest, you know, shift we need to make in our lives, that abiding isn't a moment, it's not a thing I do periodically. It's a lifestyle. I mean, it certainly encompasses the things that we would formally call tasks of abiding, but the abiding, you know, you don't think of a vine, you know, a fruit tree or event, a vine getting up and, you know, only abiding some time, like, that's where they're rooted. That's where they're sitting. And so I think that as we think about thriving, we think about understanding that we're abiding in every moment of our lives and every day.

Dan Schilling: 2:14

Yeah, how about you? And that's well, and it's really, you and I talked about, for a couple of times, I was saying the word mantras, we're gonna take that word out. I was looking at the definition that I don't like the definition, just something about the Word prompt me on but it really is, I've continued to think more about it, it is here, follow thrive. You know, it is more than a tagline. But really the term really, it's a lifestyle. And you just said it, right? It's not just something that I do. You know, in the morning, in my devotion, or on Sunday, when I go to church, or when I, you know, have my little compartmentalised aspects of God, but I'm available, I'm connected, I'm abiding in him, I want to be in the presence of the Holy Spirit, regularly in His presence is manifesting through me and that others can taste and see the goodness of who he is because of him and me not because of me, I don't have anything really other than the flesh to offer others. But when he's in us, and that fruit, and we're gonna continue to talk about that today, and just want to encourage you all, as you're joining us on this journey to thrive, that we want to see you can hear God's voice, follow his lead, thrive as a disciple, and it is a journey we might go on. I will tell you many times about ourselves and others guests will have on the show. We don't have this down, but we are on the journey. And we want to invite you to join us. So Michael, why don't you pray for us, and then we'll get started.

Michael Blue: 3:39

Good. Let's pray. God, thank you so much, once again, for just time, that we can spend talking about who you are and what it means to follow follow you and, and how that truly does result in a promise of a life that is full of the things that we long for the most, that that come from being in your presence and being around us. I just pray that we would be people who longed for the right things, who seek the right things and put ourselves in places where we know that you are so that we can grow more and more like you. So a baby with us today. Jesus name, amen.

Dan Schilling: 4:15

And, well, last time, we had two main points, and I want to just hit those again, you can go back and catch the full episode. But just to pull those points down. We talked about two things, you know, what does a biting look like? And so we want to know, you know, I can talk about it. We talked about it remaining or binding, but what does it actually look like in our life? And the second one was, what does producing fruit look like? So, we had a couple of thoughts around that. Michael, let me have it. Give you some time here. Tell us what your thoughts are again around those two.

Michael Blue: 4:50

Sure, I mean, I think that we kind of hit the first one a little bit of what what a biting looks like. Specifically we did talk about certain practices, certain disciplines that we have, but it is You know, I think of Brother Lawrence, if you've never heard of Brother Lawrence, and you're listening, he's has a great little pamphlet, really, if you call it it's too short to call it a book of practicing the presence of God. And it's, it's about he was in a monastery, washing dishes, you know, taking care of shoes, but he kind of developed the really a lifestyle of being aware of God's presence, even in the very, very mundane things of life. So I would say abiding, is that it's where the Holy Spirit does control our thoughts, our will our action, and we're aware of the interaction with him daily. And then I do think that that produces fruit. And I think we talked about how the fruit isn't so much of what we do, though, certainly we see it in what we do. It's more of the heart perspective, our visceral subconscious orientation to the world as James K. Smith says that I love. And so it looks like Hey, I am reacting to the world in a way that that Jesus would react to the world. And so I think that that producing much fruit, there's a contentment, there's a peace, there's a joy, there's a kindness, there's a love. There's also I see things that are not right. And, you know, Jesus, Jesus did have an anger and things like that. So I see things that are not right. And it stirs me in a way that makes me want to help things change. And so I think fruit looks like really a lot of my attitudes and natural reactions to the things around me.

Dan Schilling: 6:21

Yeah, that's so good. I can't even say that line it you just roll subcon tell me more about that. What does that actually mean? That game that farm boys simple, farmboy terms?

Michael Blue: 6:33

Sure. So James K. Smith wrote a book called you are what you love. And then he talks about our hearts. He says, Our hearts are the fulcrum of our emotions of kind of the seat of our emotions. So when the Bible when it talks about our heart, sometimes we think about that as our emotions, perhaps or, you know, kind of our how we feel. But really, that term for heart talked a lot more about really our guts or our viscera, if you will. And so, it. And if you think about happiness, if you think about sadness, if you think about joy, those things, you feel them, right, you literally feel sick to your stomach, at times you feel nervous, and your stomach, you know, butterflies are described that way, because it's it's a legitimate feeling for what we are. So when we talk about our heart, it's the seat of our emotions, or, and so when we change, Hey, make sure your hearts in the right place. I think what, what what mean, what he means by that are what James K. Smith goes out, which I think is right. It's our visceral, our internal subconscious. We don't even think about orientation towards the world. So subconsciously, viscerally how I am moved by the world happens in that movement of my heart. And so my heart isn't my intentions, which I think as oftentimes we say, Hey, make sure your hearts in the right place. I think what we oftentimes mean is make sure you have the right intentions, which is a part of it, but it's not all of it. It's really how do I naturally react to these things? Is my heart aligned as my you know, so I think that's what it means by our visceral, subconscious orientation to the world. Yes,

Dan Schilling: 8:09

that's good. It's very good. Well, and as you just said there a little bit ago, just the, you know, aligned. To me, these two points, the thing that really stands out to me about abiding is been this term, and for me is alignment before assignment, that before I go off trying to do things, and there's a lot of us in Christendom, we're going to look at a passage today in Matthew 19, about a that you may have heard him called the rich young ruler, the rich man, the rich fool, different versions might have title it differently. And we're gonna look at several aspects of his journey. And he's telling Jesus all the things that he was doing, or what good things must I do. And so much of I think, if all of us are willing to admit it, most of our our life and Christian dome has been about the doing. But the problem is, is the doing and this is not just a modern day issue. I think it was this guy was there and Jesus didn't he was still trying to figure out you know, what good thing must I do to get eternal life. So that alignment is so critical before I start trying to figure out all the things I can do is really get myself aligned. And having that inner part of me really, in my heart connected. And that what we're gonna talk about today a little bit about your as we wrap up today, I mentioned last time that I was going to share about the anxiety attack that I had a couple of weeks ago, I didn't even realize it was an anxiety attack till later, somebody said, that was an anxiety attack, like, Oh, I'm not like I've had too many of those. But just what God was showing me, you know, in that season, and much of it had to do about all the things that need to be done all the things that needed to do.

Michael Blue: 9:54

Right, right. Well, that's a good teaser, Dan. Yep.

Dan Schilling: 10:00

All right. And so what we're going to do now is go to two points for today that we really want to focus on and encouraging us. So here's the point. Number three, I'll see if I can try some new thing or put it up. Point number three is why is the gate narrow and only if you find it, and we're gonna look at that passage here in just a moment in Matthew seven, but why does Jesus say the gate is narrow, and only a few find it. And then the fourth point we're gonna make, we didn't want it to last time three and four, this time. Point number four is how do I move from doing to being so how do I move from doing to being And so today, we're going to again, look at Matthew seven, a key verse that I really want to pull out of here, we're going to look, verse 13, down through 28, or 29. And what I want to focus on and highlight here is verse 24. When he says that anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock, and I think this is one of those passages for me, Michael, that as I was praying and asking, Lord, what if you're calling me to feed sheep, and you're calling me to this, you know, help this organization get started and do the things that you're wanting it to do than that here, follow thrive? That just kept coming? kept seeing it in Scripture. And so this is actually one of them here. That's going to continue to drive that point even further. We'll look at that in just a minute. But yeah, all right. Why don't we? Why don't we get started if you're ready? Yeah. All right. So let's look here. We're getting started in again, Matthew seven starting in verse 13.

Michael Blue: 11:50

All right, says this, you can enter God's kingdom only through the narrow gate. The Highway to Hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who chose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow, and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit, a good tree can't produce bad fruit and a battery can't produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit so you can identify people by their actions.

Dan Schilling: 12:38

Okay, so we're gonna stop there for just a second. And this is gonna go back up here to verse 13. And we're gonna again, look at this question about why does Jesus say that the the gateway to life or the gateway to his kingdom is very narrow. And the road is difficult, but only few find it. And I don't again, believe this is about the things that we are doing. And I feel like what he's trying to help set up here, as we head into this passage is helping us understand something that we don't get to go through that gate, or find that opening on our own. Or by the things we do we actually go through that narrow gate with the Good Shepherd. He's the one who guides us through, we're with him, he's leading us and as we submit ourselves, to his leadership, his lordship, his guidance over our life as the Good Shepherd, he leads us through that path. And so the majority of our life so much has been about did I do? You know, what do I gotta do to get through this gate? And I think he goes on, and he'll say this, you know, but be careful of these false prophets. You know, they, that you can identify them by their fruit. And so he to me here, he's talking about the religious leaders of the day, you know, in different texts, he actually says, you know, they tie heavy loads around the necks of the people, trying to get them to do all the right things and their indictment against Jesus typically was about the things he didn't do like, you know, why do you break the traditions? You know, why don't you wash your hands? Why don't you just like, amen. Don't worry about cleaning outside of the bowl, you know, start looking at what the inside of the bowl needs to be taken care of, and then says here as we wrapped up this in verse 20, you can identify a tree by its fruit, you can identify people by their actions, like we're known by what comes out from within you know, like they said, you know, if it's what's down in the welcomes up in the bucket. And so, if if he's abiding in us, and we're abiding In Him in that the Holy Spirit is in us what should be continually growing and coming out of us is things that influence like you said a couple of weeks ago on the one of the episodes about our thoughts, and, and this process of our thinking, it actually is going to produce beliefs and those beliefs produce some actions. So give me your thoughts.

Michael Blue: 15:24

Yeah. So, you know, as you say that, I think that the emphasis truly is as we as we think about good and bad fruit and what's being produced, and, and why I think these passages can be so hard to understand and pull out. And a lot of is because we really do think of fruit as what I'm what I'm doing. Right. And, but I can fake what I'm doing without the heart behind it. And I think, you know, this is at the end of the sermon on the mount. And all throughout it, Jesus was chastising the Pharisees, largely the leaders for doing and not being. Yes, right. They were doing plenty. So you know, if he says, Well, you can tell, like good fruit, look at it, we tie it down to the very met and Dell, right? This is good fruit. So I must be a good, good person. But if we read in context, as we encourage people to do, the fruit then has to be what that flows out of what that action flows out of. Right? And so I think that this just continues to emphasize that idea of our rootedness and where that fruit is flowing, flowing out of in order to produce, if you will, good fruit versus bad fruit. And it comes out of my heart. Yes. So yeah. And so anyway, so I do think that we just have to really know that. And I think that's what's so hard about this. And we're gonna get to here in just a second. Where people are doing a whole lot like they're actually doing the things that you would say I should do, right things that many of us have never done. Yes. But Jesus like, no, that's not it. Yes.

Dan Schilling: 17:11

Well, and you're right. And let's get to that, because this is a, this is a pretty significant list. Right? So this is going to pick up here in verse 21. And again, I think this is going to reiterate, you know, why is the gait narrow is because, again, it isn't about me going off and doing something, it's about me being something and I think this is going to continue to drive that point home. So let's look here, starting in verse 21. Matthew seven again,

Michael Blue: 17:41

says, Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On Judgment Day, Many will say to me, Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, but I will reply, I never knew you get away from me, you who break God's laws?

Dan Schilling: 18:05

Yeah, this is gonna be a painful Day. And this has probably been Michael, for me. Since I've been a follower of Jesus, probably one of the most troubling passages to read. And troubling because like, wow, who are these people? They would appear to me as people who are saved, who are Jesus followers, who are Christians, who are whatever term you want to use, right? I mean, I've never been in a, in a place where unbelievers and they said, Oh, Lord, Lord, I prophesy, you know, I cast out demons. I mean, these are things that I don't even hear followers of Jesus talk about, they've ever been a part of very rarely, very few. And, and so who are these people is something for years that I've been trying to, like, wow, what does that mean? And I don't have to figure it out. That's not my role. But you would assume, based on the texts that are people that think that they're aligned with Jesus, but they're giving all the things that they've done. And when he says at the end here, which is such a key verse, it he says, but I will reply, after the things they said that they had done, I will reply, I never knew you in one time. And as I was studying that verse, there is that word to know means like a husband and a wife know each other. Now, not just in a physical sexual sense, it can be, but it was the intimacy of we, we know each other were available to one another. We were in communication with one other, we were biting, we have become one in our, you know, the fulfillment of our marriage vows are becoming one and he's saying, I never knew you, you never became one with me. So get away from me. So it's like, wow, this is a

Michael Blue: 19:54

hard passage. As you say that I think of you know, it's like if you said to your wife and you're you're in a conflict and you're like I'm fine. And you know that she doesn't mean she's fine. Or I don't mean I'm fine. So the intimacy there is, oh, no, I know that that's not fine. Yes. And I know that there's work to be done. But also, I also think about what we talked about last time. And this idea of sowing spiritual seeds in the fields of the world. And so I think that a lot of what we see this Pharisees doing, and I think that when we ask, well, am I doing this and in the name of God, and he doesn't, in any knows me, or am I doing it in my own name? And, and I know, and, and God says, I don't know you. And I think that idea that I keep coming to is, where do I want to receive the reward? Where do I want to receive the fruit? Do I want to receive the accolades of my fellow man? Do I want to receive, you know, the attaboys of the world? Or the or the riches of the world? Or whatever the world offers? Or am I rooted in knowing that knowing God and eternity with God, is the thing that I'm after? And so I think that that our, our idea of I can so spiritual seeds in the fields of the world, meaning I want the world's accolades in them, I'm not actually sowing spiritual seeds in the spiritual world, if you will, there are in the fields of the Father, which would result in grace and fruit that honors him. Yes, so yeah, this is a terrifying This is a passage that's really pretty terrifying when you think about what they did.

Dan Schilling: 21:37

Yes. I know there's probably not in God's kingdom a like shelf, like, these are the high good things. These are okay things, you know, these are all right. And this was and you know, but these would appear if it was on my thing, I'd say, wow, these like are top shelf things like yeah, holy smokes, like prophesied. I mean, if I percent it up, the number of Christians over my lifetime and conversation have had this percentage of those who have maybe said they participated in this is, is like 1/10 of 1%. You know, like, once you cast out demons, probably about the same percentage, and the ones who said they did miracles, probably about the same percentage. So yeah. And again, I don't know that just what Jesus is thinking. But maybe it was that same bar was like, Hey, these are really, really, you know, spiritual things. And he said, No, because, and they one of the early translations, I started reading New Living Translation when it first came out. And one of the early versions of the New Living actually said in this passage here, it said, away from me, you evildoers, the things you did were unauthorized. And they it's not it doesn't read that way. Now, this is the New Living Translation. But I remember reading that thing, oh, man, like you did them without my authority. You didn't do them as I that I told you to do, you got more into the doing something, as if that was going to impress somebody, or impress others impress me like, but I'm not impressed. Because I was never looking for you to do something, I was looking for you to be something and then you know what would happen, you would end up doing something. But the goal wasn't about the doing, the goal was about the being and when I am being with him, there is going to be as we've said, last time, there's going to be a natural outflow of the doing. And so I don't want to mistake your here's an image here. Anybody ever say to us like, well, you guys are, of course there's things to do. There is things to do. But it's not separated from him. It's not done independent of the being. It's an outflow of

Michael Blue: 23:47

well, and it moves I think, from our solution to I'm struggling spiritual to I better go do more things to I need to take, take a stock of who I am becoming, and really take stock of my relationship with God. Yes. Problem is, is the one going to do is a lot easier to fix. And I can look more outwardly I can feel better. The other one takes patience. It takes wrestling, it takes you know, it takes the mission. And actually it takes it out of my own hands, right. I can't. When I come before Him change myself, I have to rely on him to do it. And that's, I think what we push back against.

Dan Schilling: 24:27

Yeah, well, let's continue here. We'll finish out this text. Here. Verse 24, down through

Michael Blue: 24:34

2020. For anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in Torrance and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house. It won't collapse because it is built on bedrock. But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn't obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand when the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house. It will collapse with a mighty crash. When Jesus had finished setting these things, the crowds were amazed at His teaching for he taught with real authority, quite unlike their teachers of religious law.

Dan Schilling: 25:14

It's good. And what I want to point out here, my again, as I looked at verse 24, there's two different things that I see here. One is that and here follow thrive, anyone who listens my teaching and follows is wise. You know, so there's these, if you do these things in there, this is why this is good for you. Right? This is, this is like building your house on a rock, which to me is like the epitome of Thrive, right? Like if I'm built on the rock, if I'm in Christ, that is what we were trying to talk about last time. That's what real thriving looks like abiding in him is where I am thriving. So I'm, I'm on the rock. So when these things come around me, when the storms of life, we all know we have them when all this stuff's going on, that it's not going to crush me, in the midst of great tragedy in the great midst of great trials and other things, as we talked about here, a couple of episodes ago about what is thriving little really look like and for us in the Western world. Sometimes we think as long as I've got all the money, I've got, you know, freedom and I got vacations, and I got, you know, all the things that I want. That's thriving, but we said, you know, was was Jane, Peter and John thriving when they were beaten, you know, after they, the guy was healed, and they were putting in prison was was Paul thriving, when he was shipwrecked, and beaten. And I was just reading not too long ago about you know, when a snake in there on the island of Malta, and the snake bites into people, like, oh, man, judgment came on him. And then next thing you know, you know, he's, he lives like, Oh, he's a god, like, oh, man, you know, but how many of us are willing to put ourselves in a position to have all these things come on us, that will crush us. But that's the invitation that God's he's not that we're gonna have a life of suffering, it's that when you are built on him, it is going to be the rock. And so when these things come when you're beaten when you're whatever, like, again, Peter and and John, is that they sing hymns that night, right there. They're thriving, because they know they're in a center of God's will, that that didn't shake their faith. But then he says, but those who hear so you can still be hearing and don't obey is foolish. Like who builds his house on the sand. And really what I'm thinking is when I'm built on the rock, I thrive. But when I build on the on sand, it's it really is built on my flesh. Right, which is going to lead to destruction lead to death. And so when the things come, and I, you know, I can't because I'm not able to bear that weight, I'm not able to take on that pressure that comes when all this stuff comes on me.

Michael Blue: 28:02

Right? Yeah, I mean, and so it all comes back, I guess, you know, to that foundational. What are we building all of these things on? What are we building our lives upon? And, and it's really easy to build it upon ourselves and say, Well, I got this, especially in our culture, it's like, well, you know, good, good, old fashioned American work ethic. And so, you know, we're kind of almost instilled with this idea of, I can do it, I can do it on my own, I can pick myself up by my bootstraps, and I can make this happen. Yes. And that's the leads into our spiritual lives. Even though Jesus is like, no, no, no, I did it. It's like, well, but I'm gonna No, no, I did it. Like, it's done. You don't you just done. Like, well, no, let me let me just put some paint on it. And it's like, no, no, it's done. Like, stop. And so that's, you know, we can build on that foundation that it's done. And then we're gonna obey and follow and let him bear, you know, produce fruit as he sees fit. As the sower of seed and you know, that's the place to be.

Dan Schilling: 29:13

A thanks for tuning in. We're gonna break this episode into two because it was such a rich discussion. So I hope you've enjoyed so far what we've been discussing out of Matthew seven, that you're finding yourself in courage, the goal of what we're trying to accomplish here is again, that you would thrive on your journey as a disciple. And so as we look again, out of these passages in Matthew seven, that were following Jesus as the guide, that's what I want to encourage you this. The desire of the Ministry of feed sheep is to help you follow the Good Shepherd, and he wants to lead us through that arrow gate. He wants you to experience a life that's built as we look at this passage on the rock Foundation, when the things in life are boring. On, you're not keeping from following him. So, tune in next time. I'll share with you more about that anxiety, attack and scripture that God gave me. And so that time and encouraging me on my journey to become a beer. And so God bless you. Thanks for tuning in. See you again next time.